THIS IS CURRENT A ROUGH AUTO TRANSCRIPT - read the NEWSLETTER that accompanies this episode for links to stories and more.
FRAN: This podcast is part of the Tremula Network, adventure and outdoor podcasts off the beaten track. To find out more, head to tremula.network or find us on socials.
[MUSIC starts - ON THE OUTSIDE theme - Bassbeat by Alex Norton: "Funky and upbeat, jangling guitars, a fat bassline and a full horn section create the perfect soundtrack to a late summer block party."]
FRAN: (over music) Hello and welcome to On The Outside, the podcast sharing diverse views on what’s happening outdoors.
00:16 And today I'm dropping into your feeds with a celebration about another podcast in the Tremula Network. The Everyday Adventure podcast, which is created and hosted by Nikki Bass, has been shortlisted in the wilderness category of the Sports Podcast Awards 2023. We are really pleased with this. Some of the biggest names in the podcasting industry kick off the judging process and shortlist the contenders for each category. So people that are from the athletics, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and the industry judges have selected the Everyday Adventure Podcast as one of the best wilderness category podcast that was submitted. Now that in itself is really nice, but now that the industry judges have selected, the process is handed over to the public to vote for the winner. So we are asking for help from all of our listeners and supporters across the network and across our outdoors networks.
01:22 This is not just about getting the Everyday Adventure podcast and recognition. One of the reasons I wanted to share this on the outside is because out of 12 podcasts shortlisted in this category, the Everyday Adventure Podcast is one of only three podcasts with a woman hosting or even co-hosting. There are only three UK based shows in there, despite the fact that the awards take place in England and it is the only show that even mentions diversity and inclusivity in its description or anything about why they should win. This really goes to show the unbalance of podcasts in the outdoors and wilderness category, and this is why reputation and inclusivity are such a core value of all of the podcasts across the TREM network. So since starting the Everyday Adventure Podcast in May, 2021, Nikki has spoken to some fantastic guests about how they get adventure into their everyday lives.
02:33 Some of them are known really well, but many of them are individuals without a big public profile. And that's what we love about the show. We're constantly humbled by the honesty and generosity of the guests, and we just want more people to hear these kinds of stories. So what I'm going to do for you now is share a couple of clips from the Everyday Adventure Podcast and it goes with a big thank you to the three incredible women whose clips Nikki used for the entry. Carrie Wallace from Girls on Hills, Pam Joha of Backbone, C I C, and Antarctic Explorer and Record Maker Preach. So we're going to start off with this clip from Carrie Wallace talking about the work that Girls On Hills did with the Black Trail Runners on the Ramsey round.
KERI: 03:29 That's now starting to change. And so I really wanted to get on board with saying inclusivity is about making sure that everybody has access to the same thing. It's about equity rather than equality. It's about making sure that black people and making sure that people have different skin color, different financial backgrounds, different ability levels, different ages, different sexualities, everybody feels that they're welcome in that space and that they're represented in the outdoors and it's an activity and a space for them. So that's how we got involved with Black Trail Runners and their Ramsey round.
NICKI: 04:04 Gosh, I think such an interesting point I think you make about the backlash that you experience. Yeah, I mean I always find it slightly mind-blowing that when people push back in that way and like you said, aren't even aware of the privilege that they experience that allows them not to have it be a problem. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think to your credit to push past that actually, and because I know that that's something that actually can be a barrier for people in terms of wanting to speak out or learn or do more, is that anxiety around backlash and people
KERI: 04:46 Yeah. About being discredited. I mean, hum told me that one of the biggest problems they face, that blackness is a registered charity now, one of the biggest issues they face is being discredited and being, not having their experiences downplayed or not listened to by other people who are actually frankly not in their situation. So that was just something, a small element of that I sort of recognized through what we've been doing at Girls On Hills. And so we offer to support the Black Trail runners in their Ramey and try and raise the profile of their mission really.
NICKI: 05:22 And I can imagine that, like I said, I saw some of the footage as that was ongoing and just I think what comes up, because social media is quite a difficult place to capture nuance and emotion and all of that side of things. Often it's just a picture on a page or a short video, whatever. But I think there was something that was so raw and it felt like such an incredible start to a shift towards something maybe from watching that. And then it strikes you that, gosh, this really shouldn't be unusual or
KERI: 05:59 Yeah, no, exactly. I mean I was really struck, struck by the power of the experience that they went through that those few days and listening to their experiences of how they arrived at this challenge and just being there together as a group of black runners in the mountains. And even for myself looking at the photographs that I took of the challenge afterwards, just thinking how I feel, like how unusual they are to see sort of black runners doing the same thing that you just see loads of white runners every time, every time I open my social media is full of runners, and so you do, but they're all white. Yes. And it's just so refreshing. And so to see that, and I just want those pictures to get out there and become more normal and hopefully, I mean this was obviously the idea behind the whole thing, but to inspire future generations of runners to feel like they all fit within our sport and have a part of the history.
06:57 And that's how the Charlie Ramsey angle comes in because Charlie Ramsey is black and that wasn't something that was well known. And to most people, most of us white people is largely irrelevant, but if you are black, hold on a minute, the originator of the ultimate Scottish fell running challenge was a black man, and he's right there in the center of the history of our sport. And that means something. It means that everybody, these black trail runners who joined us up here in Scotland belong here and that those faces should be in our mountains and they're just simply not being represented. And hopefully these runners will go on to inspire a kind of change in that and we'll see more and more equality on the mountain.
NICKI: 07:41 No, absolutely. And like you said, O on the other hand, prompt those of us with that, the privilege of not having had to Absolutely. To think about it, to actually question and think and go, what do I need to do to enable this to be, like you said, commonplace?
KERI: 07:59 Yeah. What are my own unconscious biases and what can I do to be supportive rather than just, I guess it's that thing of rather than just not being racist, being anti-racist and actually questioning what you can do for a positive change.
FRAN: 08:15 So in this next clip, Pammy talks a bit about the work that she does, opening up the outdoors for a wider range of people. And I really love the way she talks about how she does what she does.
NICKI: 08:29 When you see people come through your programs and like you said, they might not have had much access to the outdoors or not had much experience in this field, and they come through the work that you do, I, what are some of the benefits you see that brings them not only in terms of the actual physical activity, but also more broadly I suppose, and what does it bring to you as well? For me, it's just a joy. It's just a to,
PAMMY: 08:56 I call it my personal driver is entice and excites folks to love nature to get that wow moment in nature. And when you get that wow moment, people want more of it. It's an addictive, it's addiction, and then they spread the news and then bring others out. And then when they come out into nature and they do go, wow, they go, wow, actually I want to understand it a little bit more. And when you understand it a little bit more, you'll want to protect it. Boom, bumps your uncle. So we're talking about climate change, we're talking about environmental protection, we're talking about all those buzzwords that go on a strategic senior level, but we bring it down to everyday wording. So we don't even use climate change, we don't talk environmental protection. We just go, look, isn't this wonderful? Let's tell you a little bit more about this.
09:42 Let's tell you about what you are doing. Just simple simplifying language. And so what do Marla, the participants get it? What I tell you now I'm going to give you, and this is just one example of many of the same. We've had members join us where they could not speak English, ride English, read English, couldn't lock me in the eye, and they have not been able to ride a bike or know how to access a great outdoors. They walk away after a six week program, look at me in the eye and being able to ride a bike and wanting more to the point where they have now, they are now community leaders in their own, they are cycle, cycle ride leaders, they're cycle coaches. They lead and run their own groups and they're set up their own organizations. We have a plethora of our leadership alumni that are doing exactly that.
10:38 And they're not owned by backbone, they're owned by their own organizations and they're independent and freelanced in their own and they get paid work. We pay them. When we bring our alumni in, we pay them to work with us. So it really is about valuing folks. And that's another thing that I feel that right now with the Black Lives Matter and diversity being on the agenda, a lot of organizations are reaching out to some fantastic folks and just saying, would you give us a talk? Would you do this? And expecting that talk for nothing. And I go, no, stop that inappropriate behavior. Let's validate and value folks when they're bringing expertise to your table, expertise about around something that you cannot do at this moment in time. So that's kind of another one of our drivers.
NICKI: 11:30 No, and that's such an important point as well. I think that sense that because it's important to you, you are willing to share or you should be sharing that knowledge with everyone no matter what, rather than actually this is expertise, this is lived experience, this is knowledge that people need, but also needs to be properly valued. Yes. I think, and it's so interesting how that gets undermined. I've, I've seen it happen. And the problem is the message it sends in the end, which is that we value this, but not sometimes it, it's about the financial aspect, but I think it's also about the message that implicitly sends, which is we value this but not that much. And I think because that's the bit you internalize going, well actually if you really value this, yes, put your money away above us. Yeah,
PAMMY: 12:26 Exactly what I was going to say, put your money where your mouth is. And that goes with people have, organizations do have resources, but they choose not to prioritize the resources. So we can talk about it and say, oh yeah, we're talking about it and we can invite folks to do this and that. And we can then tick our right boxes and say, yeah, we've had this and we've done that training, we've done that training. But actually let's get down to engagement. Because engagement, real engagement means action, and action means not a bolt on action that is of a one year, two year, three year. It's something that is integrated into every aspect of an organization. So you need to put the resources there.
FRAN: 13:06 And this last clip is part of an amazing conversation with somebody that I think most listeners will know by now, who is an Antarctic explorer and a record maker. This is Preach Andy Pore who made history earlier on this year for the second time by breaking the world record for the longest solo and unsupported polar expedition by a woman. So here's a conversation that's going back quite away before that happened.
NICKI: 13:41 It touches on quite a few of the points I think we've discussed with previous guests around identity and around what we are ascribed, what we're allowed to be, who we are allowed to inspire, what's, what's the narrative that is constructed around what you are doing and how you stay in control of that narrative as well, which must be incredibly hard. And I'm just thinking that there are mean, there's so many benefits in terms of inspiring others that have come out of what you've done. But in terms of yourself, and I know you've talked about how you've learned about yourself as a result of this whole experience, mean, what are some of the key benefits that that's brought you in terms of I guess that awareness or knowledge?
PREET: 14:22 Yeah, I think so. I think before this journey, I would probably still say the same thing that we don't need to say in this box or lane that's been created for us. But I feel like my box is getting bigger, it's getting a lot bigger, and every time I do something, it gets bigger and bigger. And there's stuff I hadn't have even considered. Oh, okay, maybe that is an option for me. And that's what I'm learning, learning that I can do, I want. And actually, the bigger your world becomes when you do this stuff, you know, see there are so many opportunities and so many possibilities, and that doesn't have to fit into any box or any lane or that either community is created for you. Maybe you've created some of that for yourself because you think that's expected of you. I certainly had mean my mom had an arranged marriage by 17.
15:15 I thought when I was younger, I'll be married at 20 with kids. That's normal. But again, because again, I use the word normal because that's what I thought would be the norm, but how amazing that we create our own normal and that can be whatever we want it to be. The fact that I've gone to this south hall is now the norm for me. It's an incredible journey. It really is. But the point I'm at now, I feel like I can be very, very honest, a lot more honest, at least, and real about my experiences when I, when I was younger, it was very much, you're supposed to say the right thing and come off a certain way and agreeable, never be too controversial and always smile. And whereas now I'm like, well, actually, well, I think one of the biggest things I've realized is if you are feeling a certain way, there are definitely others that feel that way as well.
16:06 So it's important to talk about all of those experiences. The good and the bad does what makes us human, and that's what other people can relate to the realness. And that can be hard with social media. Let's face it. There's so much out there, isn't it? I mean, personally, I, I've loved creating polar wheat because I have connected with so many amazing people, and I love that. And that's helped me. I'm like, oh, we can speak about it and I want to speak about everything. I want to speak about what it's like to be on your period in the outdoors, what it's like to go to the toilet, what it's like to be a woman of color and go and do something like this. The reaction that people had to it, like all of the comments, not all of the comments. A lot of the comments when I got back to see, are we not all equal?
16:51 Why does it matter? She looks white anywhere, all those comments. And it's hard not to look through, isn't it? And I remember thinking to myself, people say we're all equal, but equality to me never meant ignoring our differences. I'm called an army officer, that's a difference. I'm called British. That's a difference. And the color of my skin is something that I wasn't always proud of, and it is a huge part of who I am as is everything else. It's that one thing that defines me, but as are all these other things. So let's be proud of that. Let's embrace that. When I go and talk to schools, I say, and if you look at the person next to you, we are all different and all unique in our own way. And how amazing is that? Let's embrace those differences that we have with each other. And I think that's something I've that confidence. And I think two and a half years ago, I would've said I was a confident person and that's growing. So one day I'll take over the world, but with that confidence,
NICKI: 17:52 I look forward to it.
PREET: 17:56 So I think that has grown. And when I've gone to schools, I've been, a few occasions had a few students come up to me and those comments are so powerful to say, oh, the fact that you can do it makes me feel like I can do it. And I've heard that a lot. And it's like, yes, you can. Whatever it is you want to do, you 100% can.
FRAN: 18:26 So that is just a snippet of some of the conversations that Nikki has on her podcast. It is a show I'm so proud to have as part of the
Tremula Network and do go and check out all the other amazing conversations that she has. If you would like to help us elevate these conversations, voting for the Sports Podcast Awards is now open. The winning podcast will be selected by popular votes. So if you have a spare five minutes, we would be really grateful. Anyone and everyone can cast a vote, but you do have to be logged into the sports podcasting group to vote. This means that you need to create an account. This is yet another barrier to getting small indie shows that are talking about big things into a wider space. But if you are able to create an account and vote for the Everyday Adventure Podcast, it would mean the world to us. And if you won't listen to me, I'm going to give you a little bit from Nikki as to how she feels about being nominated. She would love your votes.
NICKI: 19:38 I am so excited about being shortlisted for the Sports podcast awards in the wilderness category. The ad Everyday Adventure Podcast is something that is incredibly close to my heart. I started it for so many reasons, but mainly because I just wanted to hear more stories about everyday people who were doing incredible things and inspiring things, but the were doing them in and around all of their other commitments and challenges and everything else they were facing in their daily lives. And so to have this, to be shortlisted, to have this nomination is really exciting because in a way, for me, it's validating all of those stories that I've had such a privilege to listen to over the last sort of almost 70 episodes. And I'm just super excited because there are still so many stories out there that I want to share. So yeah, it's really exciting. It's brilliant news. And yeah, please vote for me. Thank you.
FRAN: 20:44 So you may notice the audio, there was a little bit crackly. Nicki sent that to me via WhatsApp because she was actually away skiing last week. So exciting week for her. Thank you very much for listening to this short episode. I hope that you found some value in it. The Everyday Adventure Podcast is hosted and produced by Nicki Bass, and it is edited by me, Francesca Turauskis. On The Outside is produced and hosted and edited by me, Francesca Turauskis.
[Bassbeats MUSIC starts]
The music is Bass Beats by Alex Norton. The artwork is done by Sophie Nolan, and you are our very valued listener. Thank you for listening.