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E6 TRANSCRIPT: Thoughts from Kendal Mountain Festival 2021

Updated: Feb 21

[MUSIC starts - Bassbeat by Alex Norton: "Funky and upbeat, jangling guitars, a fat bassline and a full horn section create the perfect soundtrack to a late summer block party."]

FRAN: Hello and welcome to On The Outside, the podcast sharing diverse views on outdoors news. My name is Francesca Turauskis. I'm the producer of On The Outside and your host for today. This is the sixth episode of the season and the final episode of the season.


And to end the series, we have a special episode for you all about Kendal Mountain Festival. So the format is a little bit different on this one. We have got a conversation that was recorded at the festival itself and then afterwards we have a number of messages and voice notes from listeners who were also at the festival and have given us their views and opinions so we'll get into the conversation in a moment, but I thought I would give a quick intro to the festival itself. For those of you who might not know about it. If you listened to Episode two of the series, you'll remember that Soraya had also only recently learned about KM F and referred to it as the UK's answer to Banff. That's quite a good description for it. Because Kendall is a film and literature festival. It takes place every year in November in Kendall in the Lake District, and it's been running for over 40 years. Now there's four days worth of films, talks, books, exhibitions, and it covers all aspects of mountain and adventure sports culture. The British Mountaineering Council has said it is by far the largest and most varied event of its type in Europe, and it's the main social event for outdoor enthusiasts in the UK So as such a lot of the on the outside panel, we're going up to the festival. This is going to be a great chance free in person meeting and an in person recording, and it was also a good excuse for me to experience Kendal for the first time. The weekend was quite intense, but I did manage to pin down two of our panellists Soraya Abdel-Hadi and Kirsty Pallas. So for those who don't know, Soraya is the founder of All The Elements a community of groups and individuals who are working to increase representation across all areas of diversity in the UK outdoors. And Kirsty is the founder of our shared outdoors, which is working to redefine the outdoor narrative to become inclusive to all. We managed to find a quiet-ish place to record on the Sunday morning and have this little chat, and I hope you do enjoy.

[Recording at Kendal festival - music in distance]

SORAYA: I am picking up all of that music.

FRAN: [away from mic] It’s fine.

KIRSTY: That's alright. It's background. It’s very much ambient of Kendall.

SORAYA: It is ambient of Kendall.

KIRSTY: I don't know if that's the right word to use that word. It's the Kendall ambi– ambience

SORAYA: [posh voice] ambience.

SORAYA: [regular voice] I think it'd be really cool to be– basically have Kirsty describe where we are right now.

KIRSTY: Just now.

FRAN: [away from mic] Just now. Go for it.

KIRSTY: Okay, so we're sat in the sunshine at the balcony at the Brewery Arts Centre. We've got Shackleton tent just down below us. The BMC Breakfast Club is on in there, [clapping in distance] so there's some clapping now, and some films uh, so, yeah, you'll probably hear that a little bit, but it's just nice to be setting sunshine in November.

SORAYA: It is really nice out here. I'm, uh, as you can probably hear it sounds like I've been partying really hard, but that is untrue. I have just been talking to a lot of amazing people.

KIRSTY: It is Sunday morning.

SORAYA: It's Sunday morning.

KIRSTY: I left that bit out. That's the important thing. We’re on Sunday morning. Last day.

SORAYA: Yeah, exactly. And so it is– um. We've experienced quite a lot of Kendal already, and, uh, today has got some amazing stuff coming up to you. But luckily, apart from this, there is not going to be a lot of me talking.

KIRSTY: Yeah, it's a winding down day. But the last few days have been amazing.

SORAYA: What's your favourite bit been so far?

KIRSTY: Ohhh. Ummm. I think, actually, not to sound arrogant, but I really enjoyed speaking at the Climbing session.

[All laugh]

SORAYA: I really enjoyed my talk–

KIRSTY: I really enjoyed when I got the stage to tell everyone how great I am.

SORAYA: It was good. It was really good. I saw it and I very much enjoyed it.

KIRSTY: Yeah, I think– Well, actually, no, I tell a lie. My favourite part was actually Carlos’ talk at the same sess-on. Sess-on? Session. So, Carlos Casas of Colour Up Bristol did an amazing little segment of the climb session.

SORAYA: He did, And he is one of the nicest men in the entire world. And he rounded up, kind of, all of everyone's thoughts, I think. It was actually very… this-year-Kendall vibe about how we all want to feel part of this bigger community and how we can be welcoming and kind and how that is really what all of these activities are about and our connection to them. So it was just– Yeah, I think a lot of people found it quite moving.

KIRSTY: Oh, yeah, Absolutely. And, you know, I was going on after him, and I was, like, a bit emotional. I was like, God, I've got to follow this.

FRAN: I met him for first time last night. I was sitting next to him for a bit, and I was like, "So I hear that you make everyone cry."

SORAYA: What did he say?

FRAN: "Yes, Yes, I do". For good reasons I hope? "Oh I don't know!".


KIRSTY: Yeah. So that was a really, I thought a really beautiful part of the festival and Women in Adventure. Women in Adventure was really good last night as well. So I was there as well as a climber obviously, but as a mountaineering, a newly qualified mountaineering and climate instructor, just chatting about the process and how I got into it and how it doesn't need to be as scary as people say it is. So yeah, I think it's really good that that was included because I know certainly when I first heard about the qualifications and was going through them, we hear all these horror stories of how hard they are, but there's a little bit of hopefully a little bit of myth busting.

SORAYA: That was definitely myth busting.

KIRSTY: Excellent. Yeah, <laugh> excellent.

SORAYA: I think everyone in that session really added something different to the conversation about climbing and I think it was really cleverly put together.

FRAN: Can you just expand on that a little bit? Because I thought it was a panel and I was surprised, but also kind of like, oh, I would've been more interested in that if I knew the way it actually was shaped. What

SORAYA: Was shaped of the it. This almost sounds like I designed it, which I did not, but if I was going to take credit for the design of a session,

So at the beginning of the session there was Leah, who's a para climber, and Aiden, who is quite a young climber who has had this different journey through from competitions into outdoor climbing. And they were in conversation talking about their journeys and also really interestingly talking about who's inspired them, what type of coaching and support they'd received and how that's influenced them, and then how they want to help influence others basically. So it was quite a nice introduction into how different people might get into the sport. And then it was Carlos and there was a video shown, which was from, actually from a project I did organize called The Outsider's Summit. And there was a video of that experience with Carl Os basically taking other activity group leaders climbing. So all of the activity group leaders who took part in the outside's summit are working on access and representation for people of color in outdoor activities.

So that was a real taster of what he does and what he's all about. And then he gave his amazing emotional talk. Yeah. Which everyone was like, we love you guys. Yeah, yeah. I can't even do it with my voice today, but we love you. Can't ask. I've been doing it too much. And so that was amazing. And then from there we went into Kirsty and learning more about qualifications and representation also within the actual people who are teaching you how to climb and how to get outdoors and what that looks like. And then Kirsty into


SORAYA: Gresham. Ah yes. He was talking about lexicon.

KIRSTY: Yes. His new E 11,

SORAYA: Which sounded amazing. And actually as a climber, so I am actually climbing instructor as well, but not Kirsty. But I haven't climbed really or instructed in the last few years. And it reminded me that whole arc really reminded me. I miss climbing a lot and I miss all of the aspects of it. The problem solving aspects, the community aspects, the coaching and the training and the supporting other people. All of those bits, which are what I loved about the sport, were kind of represented in that session

FRAN (at Kendal...: Just very quickly for the non non climbers among us, the lexicon E 11 is that that's basically a route of project that yes, he's got working to crack as

KIRSTY: It were. Well, so he has climbed it, but it was so, it's a fresh descent, so it means it's not been climbed before. And E 11 is quite an extreme grade. Extremely

FRAN (at Kendal...: Hard. I I've done four, so it feels like that's quite high above. Yeah. Yeah. I've done.

KIRSTY: But I think the session did a really good job of just leaving everyone psyched.

SORAYA: Yeah, yeah, exactly. The arc of it was really good. And the advice that everyone gave was very much like you do. Yeah. And you find what you love about the sport and where you want to go with it.

FRAN (at Kendal...: Fighting a losing battle. Have a day. I'll let him quiet again. I think we'll just very quickly do kind of expectations versus reality. Cause obviously you've been to Ken a few times.

KIRSTY: No, only once seven years ago. Oh really? Yeah. Gosh. You would

FRAN (at Kendal...: Saw Bobby. How young would you have been when you came?

KIRSTY: I would've been 20

FRAN (at Kendal...: I's really young. I feel's really young. Yeah,

SORAYA: It, you know what's interesting about that because I would say that is young for the demographic that's here this year. We do need to talk about diversity at Kendall this year though.

FRAN (at Kendal...: I mean, I suppose I could just ask how have you found the level of diversity? Because I know you were speaking about this a bit last night in terms of the panels and the speakers. It's amazing. But in terms of the people that have come, it's mostly been the panels and the speakers and then

SORAYA: <laugh>. Oh yeah. Of, I forgot I I said that. Yeah, that's an excellent point. Are you sure

FRAN (at Kendal...: You weren't partying

SORAYA: To her? No, I really wasn't.

FRAN (at Kendal...: I was like going, damn, I wish I've called this.

SORAYA: Yeah. So diversity at Kendall this year has been amazing. I am biased because it is what I do and I have spent all of the time running around trying to catch the members of all the elements, community, talking about all their different aspects of diversity within the framing of what they're great at on all of the different stages, different conversations. Also seeing them hosting within activity areas that they are amazing at too. And I'm just so, I'm quite emotional about it because I feel like I'm really proud. I am proud, but that feels like I'm saying that it's almost unexpected, but I don't mean it like that. I just am. I'm just so grateful to be able to see them working within these spaces that they love doing what they love and really representing a broader sector of society. But it was interesting when we talked, and we've talked about this a lot and people have asked a lot about what do you think about the diversity at Kendall? And I do think that although everyone is saying it's more diverse, the diversity is coming from the speakers and the panelists who are taking part in the structure of the event, who are then going to the other activities and events. It is not necessarily a brand new audience of people coming from outside who are attracted yet. Yeah. I think that will come.

FRAN (at Kendal...: Do you think that's just because this is a step?

SORAYA: Yes. Yeah. And I think that's it. It's a process and it's always going to be a process. And actually Rachel from Black Draw Runners was on a New Voices panel yesterday and she was saying we have to recognize as well that our society is changing and the diversity within society is changing. And so that's also going to have an impact on the diversity within activities, but also diversity at festivals and things like that because the actual demographic of the UK is going to be different. Yeah.

FRAN (at Kendal...: One of my podcast mentors Imriel, she is just won an award for Content is Queen, which is her podcast group. And the acceptance speech was seven words, which is diversity as a process, not an outcome.

SORAYA: Yes. Yeah, which is the same. So diversity being a process rather than an outcome is the same as the idea that sustainability is never a something which you reach. The work that we do with environment and conservation is always ongoing. All of these things, we are always too quick. And it is just quite funny. Now I think about it, we're always too quick to look for an end result, but actually as people who work within the outdoor sector and who usually are taking part in sports and outdoor activities, we are always looking for constant progression and improvement. And as

KIRSTY: And as soon as you hit set a goal and you hit it and then you're like, right, what's next?

SORAYA: Yeah, exactly. And so I feel like that's something that we need to take forward with some of these other things that we're trying to integrate and support because it's something we're familiar with. Why can't we do it? I'm like, it's definitely Ty's time to talk.

KIRSTY: Yeah. I guess well just very, very much agreement. I think what's really good, well, it's not even just this year. I think what's really good is that as you're kind of saying, people coming from those underrepresented groups aren't here just to talk about discrimination and hardships and how hard it's been for them. They're here to talk about their specialties, which I think is something that is not seen that often at the moment, most folk brought in because we're like, oh, we want a diverse voice. Tell us how hard your life is. <laugh> here. It's like, oh, tell us how much you enjoy climbing. How are we running? Or whatever it is, which is really nice. And yeah, I think there's going to be a process of a few years before we see the audience reflecting the diversity of the speakers and the panelists here. They need the imagery. You need the representation to start at the top before it's going to trickle down and these things take time. So yeah, I think it steps in the right direction.

SORAYA: Yeah, I completely agree. I wonder whether there's also this element of, because there's a bigger communication thing here about Kendall, which everyone who is within the mainstream outdoor sector knows about and what the community groups are doing and how they're engaging and how we get I, I almost am saying this, I'm marketing Kendall is how we get Kendall in front of that audience. Who would love it and get it.

KIRSTY: Oh can I still look still your microphone. I think what's good this year is a lot of those community leaders have been invited to Kendall, so hopefully that means they'll be able to take almost the knowledge back to their communities and open it up for future years.

FRAN: We spoke a little bit in episode two about Kendall and the fact that both you and I were a bit like, oh, there's this Kendall thing, it's really big. Never really was on my radar. And that's something which I have heard echoed in quite a lot of the people that I've met that are speaking. And I was speaking to Carlos particularly last night and he was like, I didn't really hear about it until I was invited to speak and that kind of thing. And I was like, oh, there'll be so many people that are just cursing you <laugh> because they've been wanting to speak for years and all this kind of thing. But I suppose expectations versus reality, I was super nervous coming into this. And I think sir, we both were. Were talking about it as Kendall has kind of been on my radar for a couple of years and I just have never come because I've never felt like I would know anyone or I would know enough about the outdoors to fit in there.

Because even here a bit I'm, I wouldn't say I'm a climber, I dunno the climber terminology, I dunno the climbers that are famous and that kind of thing. And it's the same with all of the sports here. Even the hiking. I'm kind of enthusiast, but I'm not a expert and I don't kind of follow <laugh>, the sports. So I did feel really nervous coming and I've never felt comfortable and I've just felt super honored that the time that I've come and I felt comfortable is when people I know are the ones that are speaking. And it just feels like everyone that I know is rising stars and it's, oh, I'm getting emotional now. And it does. I just feel really welcomed in the community groups and I feel very honored to be a part of that. And thank you both for speaking to me and taking your Sunday morning off and

SORAYA: Thank you kind of thing. Yeah, it

FRAN: It's been emosh.

SORAYA: The whole weekend has been quite sort of thing. It really has. It really has. And I think it is. I, hang on, let me switch mics around. I feel like though some of this should be on the podcast because we are here together. We're finally all here in person. It just was quite nice.

FRAN: I might, oh, I'll just

SORAYA: Take this. It's

FRAN: Just going to be a conversation at

SORAYA: Kendall. Yeah. Oh my god. I can't wait until we can do more in person. I know. Know the vibe is just different, isn't it? Because it's really hard on Zoom because everyone's waiting for one person to speak or someone else's speak. Yeah. You're not sure who's speaking next and it's just trip to Scotland. Yes. Oh my God, yes. I actually had a chat with the, anyway, I'll tell you in a minute. Yeah. Me and Fran had this conversation about being nervous about coming to Kendall and I had a moment the week before I actually wasn't nervous about coming. And then the week before I was suddenly like, am I going to enjoy this? Because I've spent quite a lot of time in the adventure community. I've been to a lot of events. There's a lot of or previously at other events that I've been to there has been a specific type of story that's been told.

There have been specific types of voices and after a while you feel like you're hearing the same thing over and over again to the same audiences. It's very echo chamber. So I was like, do I want to go? I do want to go, but do I want to go? And then I came and it's been so amazing and so many amazing things happening, so many amazing conversations. And not just with the community groups and not just with learning more about what people do through them, talking about what it is on stage, but also discussions with brands has been amazing. Looking at what their plans are and what they want to do moving forward and how they want to better support diversity in the outdoors, but also move the conversation forward around sustainability and environment and all of those things. It feels like a very activist space this year. It really does. And I mean I love that because that's where I sit. So it just makes me really happy. I want more of this, please.

KIRSTY: I think this year I knew, I saw how many people come in and I was just so excited because it was in person and I think the last year and a half I've met and got to know so many people online but haven't been able to meet anyone. So it's like totally lived up to all my dreams of being a social butterfly. Yes. Yeah.

SORAYA: That is the thing that is actually the glorious thing about the outdoor community, social media is actually everyone does recognize not just who the people are, but also they know what people are about

FRAN: And that the projects and people, people have been saying <laugh>, people have been recognizing people via projects. There's a few people that introduced to you and you're like, oh, I know all the elements and that kind of thing. And I love that. Yeah, I love

KIRSTY: That. Yeah. I think this year it's such an amazing space just because of who is here and it's so lucky that, yeah, I heard someone saying it and it's so true. It's like it's my Instagram feed in real life.

SORAYA: It is. I mean we all, I feel, I'm going to say I do feel we are all slightly biased because we do all love the same people and

KIRSTY: Yeah. And they are here. They are all here. Yeah.

SORAYA: But yes, I think it's amazing. And what a way to come out of Covid and back into the outdoor community.

KIRSTY: Yeah, for sure. That <laugh>

V: We spoke to some of our listeners after Kendall Mountain Festival asking them for feedback at Emily dot Husky told us that it was her first time at Candleman Festival. She said that she decided to go in this air because it was a great chance to meet her, put people she met online, but also getting to see they them. The favorite part of the festival was being Saturn Cinema with queer people watching a film that represents them. When we asked Emily what she would like to see done differently or better next year at Kendall, she told us that she would love to see more quiet or chill places available and possibly last minute tickets for films. Either that or even tickets that are returned being offered for resale.

FRIT: So, hi, my name is Frit and I am an adventure filmmaker and I run a film studio called Passion Fruit Pitctures whose sole mission is to add color and diversity to the outdoors and adventure industry through filmmaking. Kendall for me was the most incredible social gathering of all my incredible friends in the outdoors industry and it was also a really incredible milestone for my career. I remember being at Kendall for the first time in 2018, I think it was. And at the time I went by myself, I didn't have anyone to go with, so I just took myself off and I camped in my van at Kendall Do Center.

And I remember I walked myself around Kendall and watched films, attended workshops, and I remember thinking to myself, I would absolutely love to speak at Kendall one year. I had no idea how I was ever going to make that happen. But then this year I had three opportunities to speak, which was incredible. I spoke about Glypho Pride on one of the free stages at Base Camp. That was a phenomenal talk that ended with a huge vocal cheer and clap from the audience members as well as myself to commemorate transgender lives that have passed on Transgender Day of Remembrance. So my talk just happened to coincide with that particular day and it just seemed like a really great way to be able to commemorate all the really brave souls that have unfortunately passed away as a result of violent crime. I also had a q and a with Joe Mosley, which was amazing.

We together really wanted our film brave enough to be able to get into Kendall and I'd missed the deadline for it the year before. So I'm really, really glad that it did. And not only that, we were able to also be together and do a q and a together and it really, for us was just a milestone for us to have brought brave enough this film, my very first film and a film that's very close to Joe's heart cause it's particularly personal with her story. It was just amazing to be able to share that moment together and really see how far we'd come together. And then finally, I spoke on a brilliant panel with just the most incredible people with Eden Cam and Smith and we spoke after the they them screening and had an all transgender and non-binary panel afterwards. And it was the most emotional panel I've ever done, the most emotional speaking engagement to be honest that I've ever done.

And I really kind of didn't feel myself whilst I was on it because for most of the time I felt like I was fighting back tears. And there was so much about watching the film in the setting that it was in and looking out across the audience and seeing so many different faces of people who had paid to come to watch a film that is about a topic that is so close to my heart. I think that really was the reason why I was so emotional and why it meant so much to me to be asked to be part of the panel and to speak alongside just some incredible souls.

SMITH: Hi my name is Kelly Smith from Kelly Smith on the Go on Instagram and I was on the "They/Them" panel. It was my first Kendall Mountain Festival and I was absolutely blown away by everything that it put together. It was vibrant, it was energetic, it was diverse, it was inclusive, it was everything that I would hoped it would've been. It was everything I wanted it to be. I was so happy to be a part of the process and having it been had it been my first year to be a speaker on my first year is just absolutely phenomenal. So I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, and thank you to Kendall for just curating a space for us all to be together. It was a great opportunity for me to see literally every single person I had ever seen in the outdoors in one space. It was phenomenal And I can't wait for next year

FRAN: So this one comes from Iona, who you can find on Instagram at iona dot adventuring, and she says, "I've never felt so emotional at an outdoor event watching they them had me fighting back the tears and it felt wonderful to be sitting in the audience surrounded by people who I just knew were there sharing the same level of love and support as me. Well done to the whole panel for managing to hold it together afterwards and convey some really poignant thoughts and experiences. And don't get me started on Carlos insanely moving speech at the climb session. Holy moly. The good vibes and emotion were washing over me in waves crying face emoji. Congrats again, Carloa. You were truly magnificent. That's my immediate thoughts because this year I felt like the festival meant so much more to so many people in more ways than ever. A real sense of togetherness and belonging, loving hearts, smiley face emoji. "

KIRSTY: So these answers are from at Public Rights of Way Explorer on Instagram, which is Charlotte who uses she her pronouns. She spoke at the Pam and per paddle session on Saturday at Kendall. Have you been to Kendall before? She said nope. It was her first time in 2021. She was invited to be a paid speaker, so got to enjoy the festival. What was your favorite part of the festival? The opportunity to meet so many people, putting faces to online names. What are your thoughts on diversity at the festival? Diversity in speakers was brilliant, but diversity in the audience wasn't great. This was something that I noticed as well and something that we spoke about with Soraya. Is there anything you'd like done differently or better next year? And Charlotte said more opportunities for free tickets to make it more accessible for everyone

V: We spoke to at Summit dot Special. That is Saba Amed. When we asked her if it was her first time at Kendall, she said was she was actually speaking at the buff stage on Saturday afternoon, invited by Craig Hoppers and also to lead a walk. Her thoughts about diversity at the festival were that it was great to see people from a diverse background, but evidently we do need more diversity in the outdoors. When we asked Saba if she would like to see anything done differently or better next year, she suggested that she would love to see a play area for kids.

KIRSTY: These answers are from at Roxanne g Baz on Instagram. Who is Roxy Barry And she uses she they pronouns. Have you been to Kendall before? No. If not, why did you decide to go this year? Roxy said because it had so many diverse stories from folks I knew and backgrounds I relate to. What was your favorite part of the festival? She said, seeing all my pals with a big eye emoji. What are your thoughts on diversity at the festival? There's a long way to go. The festival director needs to resist less and promote more, seek out. He said this was their most diverse festival, but it was due to the hard work of allies, not him. And it may have been the most diverse, but there is really only a handful of panels that were, this is something I totally agree with as well.

Having heard a little bit about the hard works that's gone into making the festival as diverse as possible. I think there's still plenty Kendall can do to increase this as well. Wow. Finally, these answers are from at Adventure Girl 81 on Instagram, who is Yasmin and uses she her pronouns. Have you been to Kendall before? Yes. I first went in 2009 when I first discovered it. I attended online as I did last year. From what I can tell from the program, it has evolved a lot and incorporated a lot of what I studied at college. What was your favorite part of the festival? Yasmin says the contemporary issues in the outdoors. What are your thoughts on diversity at the festival? It's good because it's all encompassing. Is there anything you'd like done differently or better next year? A festival ticket and accommodation package online talks to be done as a live stream, not uploaded 24 hours after.

FRIT: Really the biggest takeaway from it all was just seeing so many different people, so many people that I know from online who have become real, real world friends and being able to support them too during their talks and their screenings. That was just a phenomenal opportunity and honor really. I absolutely loved being able to sit in the audience and just listen to my friends being bad asses. I met so many incredible people, some of them being people that I've really looked up to and haven't had a chance to meet yet. So it was great to be able to meet them in person and just talk to them about regular things, but also about their plans and also to have an opportunity to thank them for inspiring me. And also, I got the opportunity to meet so many people who had followed Glide for Pride and who I hadn't met before.

And it was just so lovely to have them come up and tell me that they'd followed the trip and they'd followed the crowdfunder and the impact that Life for Pride is continuing to have. So after Kendall, I lost my voice. It's only just started to return now a few days later. So I think that goes to show just how incredible the festival was and just what an opportunity it was for so many people to have their journeys and their stories shared with people who might never have come across them otherwise. So to be part of the most diverse Kendall Mountain Festival to date really is a huge, huge honor. And I hand on how I have to thank you M Davis, Claire Carter, the whole K M F team just for pulling together the most special K M F that I've ever been to. And I really hope that this is the start of just something so special with the festival and that it just goes from strength to strength from here. I'm sure it will.

FRAN: So that's our main news story for today. But to end the show, I just wanted to reflect quickly on some of the stories that we've spoken about in this first series and get a few updates on them. So in episode one, agai talked about the controversy around Norway's volleyball team being fined for wearing shorts that were too long. While that's all changed, bikinis are no longer going to be mandated attire for female beach volleyball players. These sports governing body has decided that that rule is going to be dropped. In episode two, we talked about the ethics of horses in sporting events, there's been an update relating to the use of horses in modern pen talons following the horse and rider distress at the Tokyo Games this year. So after 109 years, the modern Pentathlon s governing body has voted to remove horse riding and replace it with cycling.

I know off record that Soraya has thoughts on this one, so we might be coming back to it in the future. And it does seem like the outdoor legend about modern pentathlon is going to have to be updated. And lastly, if you were interested in the conversation around Afghanistan, in episode four, sh and Galpin continues to give updates on where the donation money is going to and who it helps. There are some really good stories coming out from her account, so do go and check it out. She's s Galpin 74, that's s G a l p i n 74 on Instagram. So as I said, this is the last episode of the series. There is going to a series two, but we will be taking a break for a couple of months until both myself and the panel have the capacity to make some more episodes.

But if you have listened to any of the episodes, join this season. Thank you so much. I truly believe you're in at the start of something amazing here. And until those new episodes, we will still be writing newsletters where the panels share a roundup of news stories that catch our eye. You can sign up to that and read previous editions on our website on the outside And I had it pointed out to me that I should say I work on a number of other shows as well. So my OG podcast sees Your adventure is about people with epilepsy doing adventure sports. I edit the Everyday Adventure Podcast with Nicki Bass wild for Scotland, with Kathy Kam, Lena extraordinary ordinary new by our very own Frankie Jeweler. So if you do find yourself missing on the outside, please do go and storm through all of those podcasts as well. I of course, would like to thank the panelists for this series. Ani Patas,Soraya Abdel-Hadi, Kirsty Pallas, V, Eden Elgeti, Neil Russell, and Frit Tam. On the Outside artwork is by Sophie Nolan. Music is Bass Beats by Alex Norton. On the Outside is produced by myself. Editing for this episode was by me, but editing and transcript is usually by Jack o'Driscoll Social media is by Frankie Dewar, and our Patreon support crew are wild for Scotland and Charlie's Supply Shop. And of course, thank you all for listening.


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